Happy "Valentimes" Day.
ANDAFTERTHAT's Edgar Gonzelaz discusses t-shirt designs, Martin Scorsese, and double features.
You started ANDAFTERTHAT at the start of the lockdown, while you had a full-time job. I know that you just left that job to pursue this full-time. How did this all start out?
Edgar Gonzelaz: I'm a first generation immigrant — that doesn't mean that my parents came here, it means that I came here with them. With a lot of my friends, I always tell them I probably, like experience-wise, have more in common with their parents than with them, just because I had that language barrier in the beginning.
I was having a conversation with someone in my community, and they needed help raising money to apply for DACA, which is deferred action, and protection from deportation. It would allow them to travel freely, go to college, and get a job. I was stuck in this dead-end job and I didn't really know how to help because my job made me enough money that I could live comfortably, but not necessarily save every month. I just decided to make a t-shirt and sell it. It's kind of bizarre because I know that if I would have put a call out — like “Hey, I’m raising money for this person and here’s my Venmo link” — that people would have helped out. But the immigrant in me just can’t ask for help without giving something back in return. That’s why I made the first shirt in the beginning, and it was very successful. We were able to do their application and everything.
I started making a little bit of money and I was still working this job. My bills were all paid, I had like $200 left over from the shirts, and it was the kind of thing where on Twitter, you see somebody asking for aid. I had the 200 bucks, so I just sent it to them. And that made me think that there's something in this, so I just started releasing things every month. And slowly, we started to have a little bit of a following. I'm not shy about asking people to check out my Instagram, and people seem to think I live in New York, but I’ve never been. I’m from an area [Rio Grande Valley] that’s right on the border — like if I drive 30 minutes southward, I’m in Mexico. A lot of people are undocumented, so there's a need for help. With the stimulus checks, even the ones that did make it to people, undocumented people didn't have access to them. I always struggled with the complaints about the amount of money because my community’s getting nothing.
And they're getting hit the hardest by COVID too.
Yeah, for sure because a lot of my people still have to go to work. They're the ones that don't have the luxury to apply for unemployment, which isn't a privilege, but it's a level of privilege, I guess. We just wanted to help people that need it. A lot of people are like, “Why don't you just donate to a nonprofit? You can just post the receipts,” but the revolution will never be through a nonprofit. I hate to say this, but like yes, advocacy is necessary, but direct action is much better. So I would tweet like “if you know anybody that's undocumented and needs help, just DM me, DO NOT reply to this tweet,” because nobody wants to be out regarding that status.
Is that what led to those other releases?
I grew up in my local punk rock community, like DIY shows and everything, so that's always been super important to me: the idea of just doing it yourself. Originally, I wanted to play with the idea of bootlegging stuff. Coming from that punk rock community: it’s not a fake, it’s a bootleg. There’s something completely different to me, at least, like making flyers for bands coming through the city — that’s what I've been involved with forever. I always joke about, like if you are familiar with New Order or The Smiths, then you're probably like, “Oh, I see, where he gets his inspiration from.” Slowly but surely, we were able to gain a larger following and it all happened with one specific t-shirt, which is funny because it’s the Scorsese t-shirt.
Marty!
[Laughs.] It’s a very funny story. Actually the first shirt that took off, sales-wise, I called it the Free them all shirt, which is an original design. At the time, I had 400 followers on Instagram, and that got us up to like 1500, so it's like we gained like 1000 followers from that. And after that [laughs], and after that, I did the Punch-Drunk Love shirt, which hit a niche. It’s my personal favourite. For the Scorsese shirt, I had designed a shirt the night before that I thought it was really good — it was the A better world is possible shirt — but the previous night I had been rewatching Casino. So I started to play around with the fonts and stuff like that, and then I wanted to look at the Goodfellas logo, and I just started to put all these movies on a file and then I really liked the way they looked together. That same day, when I was having breakfast with my girlfriend, I just tweeted the shirt — the draft of the shirt, rather. And it went to all the…what me and my friends call “film bros”…who were like “this is sick.” I think this is a good shirt: it has the crest of Sicily, which is where his family is from. That shirt allowed me to be like “Whatever this shirt makes, I'll put it in the bank to fund our future operations.” It did crazy numbers. It’s probably our biggest order to date. It’s all thanks to that shirt.
It was good timing too because I think Martin Scorsese and Fran Lebowitz had just released Pretend It’s a City.
I had no clue! I think it would have been better if I had come up with it when the whole Marvel thing was happening, which is hilarious.
When you are designing a shirt, playing around with the fonts, and seeing it all come together, what are you usually trying to accomplish? Is there a visual story that you're trying to tell? Is there something you're trying to put out there when you're putting it together?
So that's the thing: there are some terribly written articles that I wrote back in high school about like punk rock and hip hop that are out there on the internet because that's what I wanted to do. I always wanted to be a writer, a storyteller. So every shirt that I've made, literally every single shirt has a story to it. There are design elements in all of them and there's something to it right? For example, there’s the Free them all shirt that has the butterfly trapped in the ice cube. I think it’s kind of obvious what that imagery represents; like immigrants being trapped under ICE, this immigration enforcement department in the United States that forcibly removes people from their homes. However, the original design didn't say “free them all,” it said “abolish ICE.” But there's something when you’re an immigrant or a marginalized person, you don't want to wear things that are too obvious, too hyper-political. So, what I decided to do with my designs was to kind of subvert the meaning, so the following shirt that I made was the Abolish ICE shirt, where I decided to spell it out with furniture. So when you look at the shirt itself, it just looks like a bunch of chairs and bookshelves arranged next to each other, but the joke that I made was like “hey, read the room.” Like, literally.
So, I mean that's just a small example, but they all have a story to them. With The Sopranos bootleg that I made: My father passed away a few years ago, and he loved watching The Sopranos even though he spoke no English. The episode [“Isabella” Season 1, episode 12] that I referred to in the shirt, that was his favourite episode. I remember as a kid watching it with him and being like, “Yo, this is weird,” specifically that episode because Tony had a relationship with a woman that didn't exist.
It’s also weird to watch that episode with a parent because Isabella is an idealized maternal figure.
For sure, especially because my father was an addict, and by not knowing that at the time, I had no idea why he liked that episode so much, but then you start to get older and you realize the demons that people have or the struggles that people deal with. That includes some of the closest people in our lives — a parent is as close as can be, right? So when I wanted to do a Sopranos shirt, I knew that it had to be specific to that story. I'm never going to make something that's just like, “Oh cool you would make a lot of money if you made, like I don't know, a Departed shirt.” I think The Departed is a good movie, but it’s not my favourite Scorsese movie.
So the shirts have to appeal to you too.
If you look at the Scorsese shirt and the original tweet, a lot of people in the replies were asking me to do a Tarantino shirt next, or Christopher Nolan. Personally, while I think they’re very talented, and I like some of their movies, there's something very specific about Scorsese's films and the themes that he touches on that are very close to my personal life, which is why he was the one to get the retrospective. The only other director that I would consider is Paul Thomas Anderson. So yes, to answer your question [laughs], they all definitely have a story to tell. It’s funny because I'm looking at them right now and they all [resonate]. So, that's something super duper important to me, even like the font choice...the main font that I used on this like a bootleg Smiths shirt that I have. My dad bought it online when I was 15, and it's the closest font that I could get to it. It's not quite The Smiths font, but it's similar enough. I do it my way.
That Scorsese shirt feels like a tribute to him as well. And I think in terms of his story — I mean I know he’s had a very different immigration experience, but he’s constantly referencing that too. There are also the family ties, like the meals with his mother, the documentary on his mom, his mother cooking meals on set for everyone. It’s very much like a community, like a family production.
That's a key part of everything I do. I myself I’m very opinionated, and loud, and leftist or socialist or whatever you want to call it. The idea of community is integral to everything I do. Right now, for example, we're making a little more money, thankfully. We're making a living wage and still helping people. So that's something that is at the forefront of everything I do. If ever for some reason, like a big brand or like a big streetwear brand was like “do the same thing for me now,” it will always go to fund people's ability to live without fear. And that's always going to be the main thing behind this. I myself am less interested in personal wealth. I’d rather do the collective one. If we can help just one family to be able to drive their kids to school and not fear that they're not going to come home — that's what we want.
Back to Scorsese: that’s why he’s so special to me. When I watch one of his movies, I always think that it's better to just go into it without knowing anything. For example, I have a huge blind spot for Taxi Driver. What do I mean by that? I think it’s a phenomenal movie. I think the politics in them are slightly flawed but that’s not a big deal to me; however, that movie meant so much to me before I ever watched it because I was a kid on 2010-2011 Tumblr. I was just like, “this is the best movie ever!” and then I watched it and I was like, “it isn’t?” I feel like if I had watched it for myself, I would have loved it. When I watched Goodfellas, I knew it was a gangster movie, I was familiar with The Sopranos and Scarface, and stuff, so that’s what I was expecting, but what I got was a deeply emotional story about betrayal and about survival. I was blown away. Same thing with Casino: I thought it was going to be cool, like an action movie or something. And it's not at all. It’s about friendship, desire, and love lost.
Also how betrayal can affect everyone else’s survival.
It almost serves as a moral argument against Goodfellas, which is about adapting for your own sake. Casino is on the opposite end.
The films that I think really resonate with a lot of people are the ones where there is a collective, you know, it is a gangster movie, but the whole point is working outside of the law. The whole point of survival is they have to work together and not screw each other over.
Even in Goodfellas, they explicitly say it: They protect those who can’t call the cops. And from personal experience, I've lived that. My personal favourite Scorsese movie is King of Comedy. To me, there's nothing funnier, there's nothing scarier. I love that movie. I love After Hours.
After Hours is probably one of my favourites too.
After Hours is a flawless comedy, like a surrealist movie. The reason why it's not on the shirt — this is a big topic of discussion. People were like “I know you love this movie. Where is it?” One of my favourite clothing brands is called Boot Boyz Biz.They do really cool graphic designs. They're based out of Chicago, I believe. And they did an After Hours shirt that I thought was perfect, and I was like, I can’t. My highest aspiration for ANDAFTERTHAT is to be a cool skate brand or something like that. I always wanted to be a skater, but my mom wouldn’t let me.
Why not?
The one time that I tried skating, I broke my arm, and she was like, “you’re never doing that again.” It's hard to argue. I'm a big mama's boy. I got a tattoo this week and it’s the “mom tattoo” — with the heart and everything. Now that I say that, I think that’s why I’m so keen on Scorsese.
I think, too, that his movies remind us that it’s ok to feel. You see these tough men at their lowest, at their highest, like you get the whole spectrum of feeling.
Is there any other director other than Scorsese and PTA that you would want to do/interpret?
I would love to do a Kubrick shirt. It’s probably coming one day. He’s the best director of all time. He’s not my favourite, maybe, but he is the best.
I know that you’re working on Valentine’s Day releases [NB: they are sold out]. I read that you had just watched In the Mood for Love for the first time with your girlfriend back in October. That's a very visual experience, too. Feelings are communicated visually, especially through colour. What did you see yourself connecting with the most?
There’s something to be said about a story and feelings because that’s what a good story is: a collection of things we’ve all felt. Something about that specific experience is that I watched it at a time when, you know, we all have our rough periods [in relationships]. When we sat back down with each other, we were like, “well, I'm going to show you a movie.” She said to me, “Yeah, I'm going to show you this one specific movie [In the Mood for Love].” And it's funny, because there are shirts from both movies. I had shown her Punch-Drunk Love.
Those films are all over Tumblr too. Had you ever seen the screencaps before? Or was this your first introduction to it?
It was my first introduction completely. We did a double feature, we watched Punch-Drunk Love followed by In the Mood for Love, which is honestly a little psychotic.
It’s a lot.
They're not romantic movies, but they're about love: that can be love lost, gained, or even longing. And it's a heartbreaking story, of knowing that you’re never enough to yourself or to those that you love sometimes. That to me is the forgotten part of it, like their heartbreak is very subtle — to know that you're not enough for the person that you love is the worst. So watching it in that context, where I think at the time we felt like, that's not what we're going through but that's how bad things can get if they keep heading that way, it was very impactful. It's also a really good double feature because both movies play with colour beautifully.
For the other shirt in the collection: in Eternal Sunshine, they don't seek out a relationship with other people, or emotional fulfillment from other people. They seek it out from different versions of themselves. And to me, it tells the same story: You're not ever enough until you are to yourself. And they have heartbreaking, but beautiful endings. In one, the phone rings. And then the other one, that beautiful conversation where Kate Winslet tells Jim Carrey, that she’s going to get tired of him and he’s going find something that he doesn’t like about her. And he just says, “Okay. That's fine. Let's just go through it.” And that’s what connects those movies for me. It's a vicious cycle, to long for someone that you can’t have. And that even goes back to The Smiths: “I want the one that I can’t have and it’s driving me mad.”
And even that you can grow apart and can’t come back to each other again.
Yeah, for sure. Valentine's Day is so difficult for so many people because of the capitalist framework that we live in, but also, just emotionally. There is something — and I did mean to write something about this as post or something — but in Mexico, it’s not Valentine’s day, it’s Día del Amor y la Amistad, which means “the day of love and friendship,” which is slightly different. It’s more universal.
It’s about all relationships. I think it's going to be especially difficult this year, because so many people are far away from their loved ones right now.
Yeah, exactly. That's a huge thing because like I can't even imagine how difficult that has been for people that are, you know, either dating or have just gotten out of a relationship. Something else that I read was that a lot of people broke up at the beginning of quarantine because they were in relationships that maybe they weren't meant to be in, you know?
So I designed a “Love Shirt,” that features a quote: “Justice is what love looks like in public.” And I’m closing the month with that one because I want to have a conversation with my small following. This is the love shirt because love doesn't have to be for one person, it can also be for your community, for yourself, for one another. There are people who can’t see their families right now. My grandmother is stuck in the south of Mexico because she was supposed to come back and then the country closed down. That's something that I think about a lot because I think it's important to take yourself out of the equation.
Do you have any movie merch that you either own or want or have any ebay auctions set for?
I have the After Hours one that I told you about. It's beautiful and it references the radio show that apparently Scorsese stole everything from. Do you remember when you used to go to the movies and the ushers would wear shirts promoting the movie back in the day? It would say AMC in the front, and the backprint would be of whatever movie was out that month?
For some reason, I vividly remember the Independence Day ones.
Yeah! To me, the best one was Matrix Reloaded. Let me see if I can find that online. I remember seeing that shirt, and I was like, “Oh, that is so awesome can I buy one?” And they said it's just for the workers. And it's something that I love dearly too — looking into old movie shirts. The Independence Day one for sure — with that beaming coming down onto the White House.
I found it! It’s not exactly that one, but it has the same design on the back. Omg this person is selling a lot of Matrix shirts in my size...I think you just made me spend money right now [laughs].
Is there a movie you keep hearing about that you’ve never watched?
I haven't seen Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs. And I did that on purpose because of the Taxi Driver-effect on me. They look incredible, but I have a feeling they’re going to let me down. And I’m just scared of that.
How do you see this project expanding beyond film and music?
I have big dreams and slightly smaller plans. I’ve been doing these drafts of art t-shirts, so I kind of want to do a small art collection, like an art pack or three shirts with different prints on them. I want to do more in the future regarding original cut-and-sew piece of clothing instead before the end of the year. That's for now. The movie shirts..it's weird because like, people look at the brand and they're like, “Oh, it's movie shirts.” I love making them. That’s not going to stop. I’m also making a lot of t-shirts with chairs.
Do you have a favourite one?
I like The Smiths one. Now that i’m looking at it. It’s funny. It was a meme at first, and then people told me to just do it.
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Edgar also announces new releases/t-shirt drafts on Instagram and Twitter.
